I am so sorry. This must all have been so hard for you. I truly hope that it was cathartic for you to write it here and that things improve in the future. It sounds like BIL has a big hold on SIL.
Family issues are so tough, forgiveness is so important though. When you hold unforgiveness for a person it is like taking poison and expecting it to hurt the other person, it just hurts you. It's hard to feel like you aren't believed about this I'm sure, but you know the truth. You really should read this post http://praiseandcoffee.blogspot.com/2007/10/lord-dont-you-see-all-my-enemies-part-2.html it deals a lot with these issues.
Hello, My heart just breaks for you. I can't imagine how hard this has been on you and your family.
What Annie said about poison is so true. I love that.
However, it's still really hard and I beleive the Lord understands that. When I have been in situations that were extremely hard to forgive, I have prayed, "Lord HELP me to forgive, HELP me to release this pain!"
He is so loving and wonderful...He would never ask you to do something that He would not give you the strength and power to do.
You can be rest assured, the Lord will be your defense.
You ARE free because you have the truth on your side. In time the truth always comes out...even if it's when we stand before the throne!
Don't let him dictate your emotions, your hope and joy can come from the Lord in the midst of all this.
Lisa, He is a sick f**k, and people like him are poison. Excricuatingly hard as it is, try to stay out of the mess he creates.
Use the Queen Elizabeth route - say nothing, do not bother to defend yourself, don't stoop to his level and get youself all caught up in a drama of innuendo and lies and aggravation and heartache spewed and regurgitated by him.
When there is smoke - douse it with the cold water of 'no comment' and move on with your life as fast as possible.
Don't give it time in your head or your heart, Lisa. He isn't worth it. He only wins if he gets to drag your life down like he's already messed up his.
The people who know him will know the truth because eventually his character - and lack of it - will show up. The people who don't will only listen to you for gossip's sake and proably not truly change their minds anyway.
What a creep he is. The fact alone that he went to jail for what he went to jail for should speak volumes about his lack of ethics and credibility.
I'm sorry you are exposed to the slime through a marriage in the family. Ugh. I know it is hard - my deep empathy.
Lisa, already so many wise words written on this page... I'm just sorry that you've had to experience this. Perhaps you can remember what I wrote about petty tryants... and self-importance. He is a tryant... and because it is a tryant's job to bring other's down, in any way that they can, just remember that... and try to step out of that whirlwind. Let it go... when you can't, the Creator can. We do not have the power within ourselves to forgive things like that, only the Creator can make that happen... and it may take time... in the Creator's time. And, remember you are a co-creator with the Creator... meaning, really, that you create your reality, and the Creator meets you there... don't let someone, like BIL, create it for you... don't let him have that power over you. One of the wisest things I read about forgiveness went something like this: You think that forgiveness is a gift that you give to someone else... (and it can be hard to do when you feel they are unworthy)... but, remember this >>> forgiveness is a gift that you give to yourself... for the unforgiveness is like a weight keeping you from sailing to new shores (moving on with your life)... once you cut the anchor (decide to forgive) you are free. Hold in your heart the fact that you did nothing wrong... and realize that the others involved are just caught up in a sticky, gooey web. There is nothing but confusion in a gooey sticky web. You don't have to be there. I'm glad you wrote about this... you're almost there!
Lisa, I can see from your words that you are really sensitive...and I'm sorry you had to deal with an obnoxious low-life like your BIL...your SIL will soon see very shortly what a conniving liar he is..(but I'm sure she already knows it.)and so does his family. My ex-husband was exactly the same way...(he hit on my friend) she was honest enough to tell me...and when I accused him of it...he laughed and called her 'ugly fat pig' in order to hide the fact. I knew it was true. Fortunately, he was kind enough to drop dead, and save his family and the world years of aggravation. He truly was a waste of human skin. Hope your SIL smartens up in time. Hold your head high...let them apologize to you..you've done what you can.....live your life. You didn't do anything wrong.
Holy freakin' cow! I have no point of reference that this happens other than on TV. Reading a real life account of such goings on have left me utterly speechless. I'm terribly sorry for your ordeal.
Yes, this was extremely hard to deal with (there will be another post about something that happened during all of this). I think being called a liar was the hardest part about it; I've always prided myself on my honesty.
Thanks for taking the time to read it! It definitely was cathartic, although I'm not sure putting it on the internet was the smartest thing to do.
Wow. That post was so timely, I can not believe that you directed me there...divine intervention, for sure! I do know that forgiveness is key...there will be more about that in a new post...but sometimes, even though I've said I've forgiven him, I wonder if that's true? Sometimes I still get angry about everything, although not as much as before. And that makes me wonder if I've truly forgiven him. I mean, if I have, wouldn't I just let it go for good?
Thank you for taking the time to comment, and God bless you for forwarding that post to me!
I do believe with my whole heart that the Lord will bring me through this. I'm not always a "perfect" Christian about it, though, and I do tend to let my emotions rule me once in a while...but I do try my best to let God have control of the situation!
I find it amazing that Annie led me to your posting which helped me greatly...and then I printed it up and gave it to my daughter who was upset with a girl at school who was talking about her behind her back! I found it next to her pillow this morning. So you not only helped me...you helped her as well. Thank you for that. And thank you so much for stopping by!
The only time I'm able to come close to feeling any forgiveness towards this man is when I do realize that he really is sick. He was raised in a very odd environment, and was put on a pedestal by his mother and younger sister--nothing he did was ever "wrong", and as he got older it seemed like everyone was just so proud of him for making money, they forgot to acknowledge that he didn't do it legally. Hence, this must be where he got his "God" complex from. So when I think of him as a child growing up like that, it's almost sad. But he's not a child anymore; he's a grown-up, he's seen the real world, and he should know better. That's what makes forgiving him a little harder, but I am trying.
Take good care (and I'll most likely speak to you later), Lisa
Those are such wise words. I am trying to forgive him, but I don't trust him, either. Also, I feel that it would be a whole lot easier to forgive and forget if he wasn't a part of the family! That's what the nightmare seems to be with me right now. The holidays are coming, and all I'm seeing is mass confusion and hurt feelings. But I do think God has a plan...as a matter of fact, I know it. I feel it. Things are starting to change.
I love your analogy about the "sticky, gooey web"--how very true! Also, I like the vision of "cutting the anchor." Just cut it off, let it sink itself, and sail away, free. Great visual reference.
Thank you for your comment, your words are always appreciated.
Yes, my BIL spewed out a whole long list of why I was so unattractive to him in front of his wife, also...I still stand firm that, although I don't consider myself a dog, this had nothing to do with looks, and everything to do with miscommunication and control. The attraction may not have been physical, it most likely was something mental he conjured up in his own head. I think it was very important for him to "conquer" my husband, a very good-looking man who just so happens to not make tons of money. My BIL couldn't grasp that I thought my husband was great, anyway. By doing what he did to me, it was in some sick way proving in his own head that he was still better than my husband because he had more power. This is just my own theory from the family dynamic I've seen over the years.
"...he was kind enough to drop dead." Oh forgive me, but you made me laugh out loud with that!
I don't want people to think that by finding that funny, I would wish anyone dead...I definitely wouldn't (getting shipwrecked on a tropical island in the middle of nowhere, maybe--but not a death sentence)! Even when my ex-husband was not treating me right, I would pray to God that he'd find Jesus or another woman, because I couldn't take it anymore (ironically, he did both...backwards, but it seems as though God did answer my prayers)!
Unfortunately, I don't even think this man has any clue (or my SIL, either) what effect all of this is having on his kids. The whole entire situation is so sad, all because of one person...it really is amazing how one person can cause so many lives to be altered.
I've heard that before...sometimes all of this is too much for me to even believe! But unfortunately, it did happen. I may have to remove the post because this man has actually placed that much fear on my family (I know he uses the internet; I'm just not sure if he'd know how to find this blog, and my husband doesn't want me to take that chance). But thank you for stopping by and taking the time to comment!
Hi Lisa, thanks for the link back in and I did go ahead and delete the comment you posted with the link, as soon as I published it and ran right back and saw it. And this time I saved it in favs, lol. I know how you feel about wanting this secret. When I first found the link in your profile, I was signed in under another secret blog name that I have and I left a comment... then decided to delete it, because I wasn't quite so sure I wanted my own secret blog to be traced ... or if I wanted any of my current blogging friends to read my secret blog, lol. Then I realize that even though I had deleted the comment, you would have an e-mail in your box and would be able to trace it back to my secret blog, rofl... so, one option if you want it to not be traced is to set up an entirely different email account, with some bogus name... that way it won't be linked to your other blog. You could always send your blogging buddies the link... or, even, you could just let those who are here stick around to help you through the junk, if that's what you want. When I used to be in MSN Communities years ago, we sometimes formed private communities for healing of special issues or unhealed places within ourselves. It all amounted to being just like a support group... and offered us the freedom to talk about a certain subject for as long as it took, until the issue was resolved. Sometimes all we need is to be able to talk about it, and receive positive feedback, that's all... that's what support is all about. Grrrr... ya know?
I was reading a comment you had about wondering if you had really forgiven if you still felt anger. Part of this may be about your own self-esteem. I picked up on something you said, where you mentioned that he was going on and on about all the things about you that made you unattractive to him... and, you said, "The attraction may not have been physical, it most likely was something mental he conjured up in his own head." For heaven sake, woman! He was physically attracted to you! You are a beautifully gorgeous woman! We've all seen your pictures, we know that you are! So don't you think for one moment that you are not a beautiful and appealing woman. He probably has low self esteem, too... and even his wife's gorgeous looks can't make up for what is lacking inside of him. In fact, maybe he saw something in you that he doesn't even see in her, with all her goods looks... something much more solid and substantial. You are the doubly whammy!
Glad you liked the analogy of the anchor. It came from a book called The Locket... and it helped me understand forgiveness on a whole new level. Forget about being nice to the creep, it's something you do for yourself... and I was just thinking that if you were ok about who you are... inside and out... that you could move beyond the anger... he has attacked you quite personally on so many levels. I'm not sure I can answer the question of whether you've actually forgiven him... it's really easy to forgive from afar, eh? Lol. Along those lines, another thing that I discovered about forgiveness is this... you can forgive them, but it doesn't mean you have to have them in your life... forgiving them doesn't mean accepting that gooey sticky mess back into your life... you have a right to your boundaries and a right to keep your personal space free from any garbage that ensues from other people's crap. And remember that piece I wrote about petty tyrants? One of the things is says is to not give away your power by showing your weaknesses... (like Loving Annie said about Queen Elizabeth, don't even respond to it)... but, the article also said, it doesn't mean that you can't be plotting silently on your ... well, not revenge, exactly, but perhaps the correct response. Wouldn't it be soooo nice if, at the next family gathering, if he starts his crap again and you could just stand there, with your loving husband, and look at him and just bust out laughing, your and your husband look at one another and then laugh some more? Good people shouldn't have to defend themselves against fools... petty tyrants are always very slick and can bring us to our knees in no time... if only we would not play their sick little game... which is what we do, play right into their hands, because they have the power to push our buttons. Stand strong, Lisa! Be proud of who you are... you go girl! Pity them, even pray for them... and remain centered in who you are.
It's so totally narcissism! Just forget and dont worry about forgiving...it won't change anything. My in laws...esp BIL are total text book cases...my hubby the least affected...but oh boy is it there!! After over two decades of peculiar behaviours I've nailed it. What freedom for me. What a release. I don't have to try anymore coz I know nothing works! It most certainly doesn't excuse their behaviours, but I can now understand why. Put your energy into something else. Shake off business associations if possible. The father sounds the same...and prob the cause of your BIL's disorder!!! Katy
You know what's funny? This blog's comments don't show up on my email, which is why I'm so delinquent in answering them. So don't worry, I didn't read your deleted comment (I admittedly get a "kick" out of reading my comments in my comment forum, so I don't actually read them in my email, anyway)!
Your words are always so wise. I knew that he was FOS when he said those things about me because six months earlier, he told me I should dye my hair blonde like Pam Anderson's and how he thought I'd look really amazing like that. Idiot. And we were at our business when he said that; he waited until my husband went into the office to count coins in the very noisy coin counter! I made sure to make a joke out of it, though, and I told my husband what he said as soon as he came out...I didn't want my BIL to think he could get away with that crap.
I don't think I'm unattractive; I just never had that "natural", exotic beauty like my SIL. I mean, this woman made many feel inferior...she was really blessed with strikingly good looks, and the body to match (you could bounce coins off of her stomach, and she never did crunches). But the problem with her is just that--her looks--because her whole life was defined by them. Knowing their personalities, and how much she had to keep from him during their marriage (and I'm talking normal, everyday stuff here, not like an affair or anything like that), I think she was a "trophy" wife for him, she was definitely way out of his league as far as attractiveness goes, and she was a good person (and I hope somewhere deep down, she still is, although I haven't seen much of that side of her for a while)...she definitely made him look better to himself and, most importantly (to him) to those around him!
Again, he didn't have the most normal of childhoods, and his mom is just the strangest being, although I did get along with her very well. Obviously, she hates me right now (she just recently said that she was so disappointed in us for accusing her son of terrible things, because she actually liked us very much--lady, do you realize that your son just came out of prison for, basically, lying to the masses???). His dad went away for life when he was in his formative years, and he's still a very strong presence in his life. I think my husband and I worry the most that one or both of their kids might go down that path (one of the kids was stealing for a while--he stole cell phones from my son and even his own grandmother--his dad's mother--and my SIL tried in vain to cover it up. It was so obvious what she was doing, it was painful to watch. Even my kids knew what they were doing, it was really pathetic). The whole situation is just pathetic, and very, very sad.
Anyway, I would like to have an "anonymous" blog, that was actually my intent here, but since I'm pretty green as far as the internet goes, I didn't realize that it would basically be the same blog. I'm going to find out if I can change it somehow.
Thanks again for all of your kind words and support...you really are a gem, just a great person!
Thank you for taking the time to stop by and comment! I'm curious...very curious, actually...how you found this blog?
It's funny you said what you did about being "free"--I found NPD from looking up "pathological liar", and when I read about the disorder, it was one of the most freeing, defining moments of my life! It was like a great weight was lifted off of my shoulders, because now I knew that this man really was "sick". It is amazing how he fit every single criteria to a "t". My SIL is a co-dependent, too...she needs to ride on his coattails at any cost.
Now, I know that I have issues with certain things; we all do. But I am not unkind. I could never deliberately hurt someone, especially for my own gain. So for me, trying to understand that kind of behavior is really hard, NPD or no NPD. I don't think I'll ever understand it. But you're right; you can't do one thing about it, and they'll never change.
I do stay very far away from him, and I haven't seen him in 2 1/2 years. That's been a blessing!
We will absolutely NOT be seeing them for the holidays. We're not even NEAR that point, and as far as I know, we never will be. This guy destroyed any kind of family ties that we all may have had, and purposely so. He never liked my SIL's family to begin with because he was jealous that they were pretty functional, and loved each other through thick and thin...a family tie that he probably never knew.
How I found this blog...easy I have a google alert on " Narcissistic in laws"! Alot that come thru aren"t necessarily relavant to the information and support I am seeking...but your one sure caught my eye! I was in the middle of a crisis in my marriage..twisted in every which a way, when my mum asked me to do a search on narcissim re her sister who is a total fruitcake. As I started reading my hubby and families odd behaviours jumped out at me and the more I read the more I was convinced I had hit the nail on the head. Thanks mum! I cut and pasted, cut and pasted and came up withmy own short list of behaviuors that were applicable to my in laws... - cant reason well -envious -competitive -comparing -negative outlook -sensitive to personnal criticism -critical of others -intolerance to disagreement -hostile > passive -inattentive to self image..stay in a time warp here -hung up on the importance of THEIR work > a show of working hard -talk from an authorative source...not their own -attach to others -workaholism ( I have read this can be a manic defense against depresson) -critical if you do or you dont -lack of autonomy -contradict themselves -misquote -name calling -blaming -trouble grasping meaning...oral or written ( I find it has to be in context) -ridicules -talking to others about you...never you -verbal abuse -closed system of logic > no input -low self esteem -self deception -hot\ cold reactions -resentful -boundaries not clear -little or no sense of humour There are some more things I could add...oh so many more and I can give examples to each one these behaviours!and more.......!!!!! It has been so hard to deal with over the years...to the stage I had a break down earlier on this year. My saving grace has been discovering it's not me. I wanted to shout it from the rooftops. HOW FREEING!! Any of this sound familiar!!! I do have more if you are interested! Katy
Oh, my goodness, yes it sounds familiar! Actually, my ex-husband can be quite narcissistic, and I spent most of my marriage thinking it was all "me". Now, it takes two to tango, but when you've done everything you can to please someone--from only wearing the clothes he likes to cleaning incessantly (and getting ridiculed on an "off" day when a toy was on the floor or there were no carpet lines in the rug when he came home), to never letting your hair get longer than your shoulders, even though that's the way you like it--you really start to feel that you are a loser. Nothing I ever did was good enough for this man. By the end of my marriage, I had no identity--I was his wife, I had no name or opinions of my own. I honestly believe that God felt I deserved better.
Now, when I met my new in-laws (I'm remarried--and yes, it's a much better match!), I started to realize that my SIL's husband acted an awful lot like MY FIRST husband...all that arrogance, and running her ragged, and making sure she was his "trophy", doing everything perfect--but the difference between me and her was that she was one of those co-dependent narcissists. She loved the money and the lifestyle--it never seemed to bother her that it was illegal; she also had something to say about everyone, was judgemental, etc...my husband swears his sister was never like that growing up, that her husband turned her into that. I mean, between the two of them, the pride and arrogance was overwhelming sometimes.
My BIL was empty, though; at least my SIL could show signs of being human. This man, if he ever showed any kind of a human side, it was either a lie, or he only did it in front of my SIL alone. I've never seen anyone lie like my BIL before in my life. Just pathological lying, all about CYA constantly...he cheated my FIL, he constantly badmouthed my MIL...these were people that were very kind to him and allowed him to remain in the family even after he did terrible things to my SIL (which she always downplayed, and still does to this day...like everyone else is crazy for making a big deal out of the fact that he raised his hands to her, or that he was a criminal, etc.)...I'll tell you, the sickest person here is my SIL. Some great big stuff just went down recently, and she's STILL there sticking up for him. It is truly pathetic, it really is. Every time I hear something about the situation, I just can't help saying, "WHAT'S WRONG WITH HER?!?" I just don't get it!
Thanks again for stopping by. You should create a "narcissistic blog", lol...I'm sure you'd have plenty to write about...hey, I could be a contributor, LOL!!!
22 comments:
Wow. That was an amazing story.
I am so sorry. This must all have been so hard for you. I truly hope that it was cathartic for you to write it here and that things improve in the future. It sounds like BIL has a big hold on SIL.
:(
Family issues are so tough, forgiveness is so important though. When you hold unforgiveness for a person it is like taking poison and expecting it to hurt the other person, it just hurts you. It's hard to feel like you aren't believed about this I'm sure, but you know the truth. You really should read this post http://praiseandcoffee.blogspot.com/2007/10/lord-dont-you-see-all-my-enemies-part-2.html
it deals a lot with these issues.
Hello,
My heart just breaks for you. I can't imagine how hard this has been on you and your family.
What Annie said about poison is so true. I love that.
However, it's still really hard and I beleive the Lord understands that. When I have been in situations that were extremely hard to forgive, I have prayed, "Lord HELP me to forgive, HELP me to release this pain!"
He is so loving and wonderful...He would never ask you to do something that He would not give you the strength and power to do.
You can be rest assured, the Lord will be your defense.
You ARE free because you have the truth on your side. In time the truth always comes out...even if it's when we stand before the throne!
Don't let him dictate your emotions, your hope and joy can come from the Lord in the midst of all this.
I'm praying for you!
(((Hugs)))
Sue
Lisa,
He is a sick f**k, and people like him are poison. Excricuatingly hard as it is, try to stay out of the mess he creates.
Use the Queen Elizabeth route - say nothing, do not bother to defend yourself, don't stoop to his level and get youself all caught up in a drama of innuendo and lies and aggravation and heartache spewed and regurgitated by him.
When there is smoke - douse it with the cold water of 'no comment' and move on with your life as fast as possible.
Don't give it time in your head or your heart, Lisa. He isn't worth it. He only wins if he gets to drag your life down like he's already messed up his.
The people who know him will know the truth because eventually his character - and lack of it - will show up.
The people who don't will only listen to you for gossip's sake and proably not truly change their minds anyway.
What a creep he is.
The fact alone that he went to jail for what he went to jail for should speak volumes about his lack of ethics and credibility.
I'm sorry you are exposed to the slime through a marriage in the family. Ugh.
I know it is hard - my deep empathy.
Loving Annie
Lisa, already so many wise words written on this page... I'm just sorry that you've had to experience this. Perhaps you can remember what I wrote about petty tryants... and self-importance. He is a tryant... and because it is a tryant's job to bring other's down, in any way that they can, just remember that... and try to step out of that whirlwind. Let it go... when you can't, the Creator can. We do not have the power within ourselves to forgive things like that, only the Creator can make that happen... and it may take time... in the Creator's time. And, remember you are a co-creator with the Creator... meaning, really, that you create your reality, and the Creator meets you there... don't let someone, like BIL, create it for you... don't let him have that power over you. One of the wisest things I read about forgiveness went something like this: You think that forgiveness is a gift that you give to someone else... (and it can be hard to do when you feel they are unworthy)... but, remember this >>> forgiveness is a gift that you give to yourself... for the unforgiveness is like a weight keeping you from sailing to new shores (moving on with your life)... once you cut the anchor (decide to forgive) you are free. Hold in your heart the fact that you did nothing wrong... and realize that the others involved are just caught up in a sticky, gooey web. There is nothing but confusion in a gooey sticky web. You don't have to be there. I'm glad you wrote about this... you're almost there!
Lisa,
I can see from your words that you are really sensitive...and I'm sorry you had to deal with an obnoxious low-life like your BIL...your SIL will soon see very shortly what a conniving liar he is..(but I'm sure she already knows it.)and so does his family.
My ex-husband was exactly the same way...(he hit on my friend) she was honest enough to tell me...and when I accused him of it...he laughed and called her 'ugly fat pig' in order to hide the fact. I knew it was true.
Fortunately, he was kind enough to drop dead, and save his family and the world years of aggravation. He truly was a waste of human skin.
Hope your SIL smartens up in time. Hold your head high...let them apologize to you..you've done what you can.....live your life. You didn't do anything wrong.
Holy freakin' cow! I have no point of reference that this happens other than on TV. Reading a real life account of such goings on have left me utterly speechless. I'm terribly sorry for your ordeal.
Oh, and hi.
Dear Guilty Secret,
Yes, this was extremely hard to deal with (there will be another post about something that happened during all of this). I think being called a liar was the hardest part about it; I've always prided myself on my honesty.
Thanks for taking the time to read it! It definitely was cathartic, although I'm not sure putting it on the internet was the smartest thing to do.
Take good care,
Lisa
Dear Annie,
Wow. That post was so timely, I can not believe that you directed me there...divine intervention, for sure! I do know that forgiveness is key...there will be more about that in a new post...but sometimes, even though I've said I've forgiven him, I wonder if that's true? Sometimes I still get angry about everything, although not as much as before. And that makes me wonder if I've truly forgiven him. I mean, if I have, wouldn't I just let it go for good?
Thank you for taking the time to comment, and God bless you for forwarding that post to me!
Take good care,
Lisa
Dear Sue,
I do believe with my whole heart that the Lord will bring me through this. I'm not always a "perfect" Christian about it, though, and I do tend to let my emotions rule me once in a while...but I do try my best to let God have control of the situation!
I find it amazing that Annie led me to your posting which helped me greatly...and then I printed it up and gave it to my daughter who was upset with a girl at school who was talking about her behind her back! I found it next to her pillow this morning. So you not only helped me...you helped her as well. Thank you for that. And thank you so much for stopping by!
Take good care,
Lisa
Dear Loving Annie,
The only time I'm able to come close to feeling any forgiveness towards this man is when I do realize that he really is sick. He was raised in a very odd environment, and was put on a pedestal by his mother and younger sister--nothing he did was ever "wrong", and as he got older it seemed like everyone was just so proud of him for making money, they forgot to acknowledge that he didn't do it legally. Hence, this must be where he got his "God" complex from. So when I think of him as a child growing up like that, it's almost sad. But he's not a child anymore; he's a grown-up, he's seen the real world, and he should know better. That's what makes forgiving him a little harder, but I am trying.
Take good care (and I'll most likely speak to you later),
Lisa
Dear Shimmerings,
Those are such wise words. I am trying to forgive him, but I don't trust him, either. Also, I feel that it would be a whole lot easier to forgive and forget if he wasn't a part of the family! That's what the nightmare seems to be with me right now. The holidays are coming, and all I'm seeing is mass confusion and hurt feelings. But I do think God has a plan...as a matter of fact, I know it. I feel it. Things are starting to change.
I love your analogy about the "sticky, gooey web"--how very true! Also, I like the vision of "cutting the anchor." Just cut it off, let it sink itself, and sail away, free. Great visual reference.
Thank you for your comment, your words are always appreciated.
Take good care,
Lisa
Dear Matty,
Yes, my BIL spewed out a whole long list of why I was so unattractive to him in front of his wife, also...I still stand firm that, although I don't consider myself a dog, this had nothing to do with looks, and everything to do with miscommunication and control. The attraction may not have been physical, it most likely was something mental he conjured up in his own head. I think it was very important for him to "conquer" my husband, a very good-looking man who just so happens to not make tons of money. My BIL couldn't grasp that I thought my husband was great, anyway. By doing what he did to me, it was in some sick way proving in his own head that he was still better than my husband because he had more power. This is just my own theory from the family dynamic I've seen over the years.
"...he was kind enough to drop dead." Oh forgive me, but you made me laugh out loud with that!
I don't want people to think that by finding that funny, I would wish anyone dead...I definitely wouldn't (getting shipwrecked on a tropical island in the middle of nowhere, maybe--but not a death sentence)! Even when my ex-husband was not treating me right, I would pray to God that he'd find Jesus or another woman, because I couldn't take it anymore (ironically, he did both...backwards, but it seems as though God did answer my prayers)!
Unfortunately, I don't even think this man has any clue (or my SIL, either) what effect all of this is having on his kids. The whole entire situation is so sad, all because of one person...it really is amazing how one person can cause so many lives to be altered.
Take good care,
DB
Dear Rimshot,
I've heard that before...sometimes all of this is too much for me to even believe! But unfortunately, it did happen. I may have to remove the post because this man has actually placed that much fear on my family (I know he uses the internet; I'm just not sure if he'd know how to find this blog, and my husband doesn't want me to take that chance). But thank you for stopping by and taking the time to comment!
Take good care,
DB
Hi Lisa, thanks for the link back in and I did go ahead and delete the comment you posted with the link, as soon as I published it and ran right back and saw it. And this time I saved it in favs, lol. I know how you feel about wanting this secret. When I first found the link in your profile, I was signed in under another secret blog name that I have and I left a comment... then decided to delete it, because I wasn't quite so sure I wanted my own secret blog to be traced ... or if I wanted any of my current blogging friends to read my secret blog, lol. Then I realize that even though I had deleted the comment, you would have an e-mail in your box and would be able to trace it back to my secret blog, rofl... so, one option if you want it to not be traced is to set up an entirely different email account, with some bogus name... that way it won't be linked to your other blog. You could always send your blogging buddies the link... or, even, you could just let those who are here stick around to help you through the junk, if that's what you want. When I used to be in MSN Communities years ago, we sometimes formed private communities for healing of special issues or unhealed places within ourselves. It all amounted to being just like a support group... and offered us the freedom to talk about a certain subject for as long as it took, until the issue was resolved. Sometimes all we need is to be able to talk about it, and receive positive feedback, that's all... that's what support is all about. Grrrr... ya know?
I was reading a comment you had about wondering if you had really forgiven if you still felt anger. Part of this may be about your own self-esteem. I picked up on something you said, where you mentioned that he was going on and on about all the things about you that made you unattractive to him... and, you said, "The attraction may not have been physical, it most likely was something mental he conjured up in his own head." For heaven sake, woman! He was physically attracted to you! You are a beautifully gorgeous woman! We've all seen your pictures, we know that you are! So don't you think for one moment that you are not a beautiful and appealing woman. He probably has low self esteem, too... and even his wife's gorgeous looks can't make up for what is lacking inside of him. In fact, maybe he saw something in you that he doesn't even see in her, with all her goods looks... something much more solid and substantial. You are the doubly whammy!
Glad you liked the analogy of the anchor. It came from a book called The Locket... and it helped me understand forgiveness on a whole new level. Forget about being nice to the creep, it's something you do for yourself... and I was just thinking that if you were ok about who you are... inside and out... that you could move beyond the anger... he has attacked you quite personally on so many levels. I'm not sure I can answer the question of whether you've actually forgiven him... it's really easy to forgive from afar, eh? Lol. Along those lines, another thing that I discovered about forgiveness is this... you can forgive them, but it doesn't mean you have to have them in your life... forgiving them doesn't mean accepting that gooey sticky mess back into your life... you have a right to your boundaries and a right to keep your personal space free from any garbage that ensues from other people's crap. And remember that piece I wrote about petty tyrants? One of the things is says is to not give away your power by showing your weaknesses... (like Loving Annie said about Queen Elizabeth, don't even respond to it)... but, the article also said, it doesn't mean that you can't be plotting silently on your ... well, not revenge, exactly, but perhaps the correct response. Wouldn't it be soooo nice if, at the next family gathering, if he starts his crap again and you could just stand there, with your loving husband, and look at him and just bust out laughing, your and your husband look at one another and then laugh some more? Good people shouldn't have to defend themselves against fools... petty tyrants are always very slick and can bring us to our knees in no time... if only we would not play their sick little game... which is what we do, play right into their hands, because they have the power to push our buttons. Stand strong, Lisa! Be proud of who you are... you go girl! Pity them, even pray for them... and remain centered in who you are.
It's so totally narcissism! Just forget and dont worry about forgiving...it won't change anything.
My in laws...esp BIL are total text book cases...my hubby the least affected...but oh boy is it there!! After over two decades of peculiar behaviours I've nailed it. What freedom for me. What a release. I don't have to try anymore coz I know nothing works!
It most certainly doesn't excuse their behaviours, but I can now understand why.
Put your energy into something else. Shake off business associations if possible. The father sounds the same...and prob the cause of your BIL's disorder!!!
Katy
Dear Shimmerings,
You know what's funny? This blog's comments don't show up on my email, which is why I'm so delinquent in answering them. So don't worry, I didn't read your deleted comment (I admittedly get a "kick" out of reading my comments in my comment forum, so I don't actually read them in my email, anyway)!
Your words are always so wise. I knew that he was FOS when he said those things about me because six months earlier, he told me I should dye my hair blonde like Pam Anderson's and how he thought I'd look really amazing like that. Idiot. And we were at our business when he said that; he waited until my husband went into the office to count coins in the very noisy coin counter! I made sure to make a joke out of it, though, and I told my husband what he said as soon as he came out...I didn't want my BIL to think he could get away with that crap.
I don't think I'm unattractive; I just never had that "natural", exotic beauty like my SIL. I mean, this woman made many feel inferior...she was really blessed with strikingly good looks, and the body to match (you could bounce coins off of her stomach, and she never did crunches). But the problem with her is just that--her looks--because her whole life was defined by them. Knowing their personalities, and how much she had to keep from him during their marriage (and I'm talking normal, everyday stuff here, not like an affair or anything like that), I think she was a "trophy" wife for him, she was definitely way out of his league as far as attractiveness goes, and she was a good person (and I hope somewhere deep down, she still is, although I haven't seen much of that side of her for a while)...she definitely made him look better to himself and, most importantly (to him) to those around him!
Again, he didn't have the most normal of childhoods, and his mom is just the strangest being, although I did get along with her very well. Obviously, she hates me right now (she just recently said that she was so disappointed in us for accusing her son of terrible things, because she actually liked us very much--lady, do you realize that your son just came out of prison for, basically, lying to the masses???). His dad went away for life when he was in his formative years, and he's still a very strong presence in his life. I think my husband and I worry the most that one or both of their kids might go down that path (one of the kids was stealing for a while--he stole cell phones from my son and even his own grandmother--his dad's mother--and my SIL tried in vain to cover it up. It was so obvious what she was doing, it was painful to watch. Even my kids knew what they were doing, it was really pathetic). The whole situation is just pathetic, and very, very sad.
Anyway, I would like to have an "anonymous" blog, that was actually my intent here, but since I'm pretty green as far as the internet goes, I didn't realize that it would basically be the same blog. I'm going to find out if I can change it somehow.
Thanks again for all of your kind words and support...you really are a gem, just a great person!
Take good care,
db
Dear Katy,
Thank you for taking the time to stop by and comment! I'm curious...very curious, actually...how you found this blog?
It's funny you said what you did about being "free"--I found NPD from looking up "pathological liar", and when I read about the disorder, it was one of the most freeing, defining moments of my life! It was like a great weight was lifted off of my shoulders, because now I knew that this man really was "sick". It is amazing how he fit every single criteria to a "t". My SIL is a co-dependent, too...she needs to ride on his coattails at any cost.
Now, I know that I have issues with certain things; we all do. But I am not unkind. I could never deliberately hurt someone, especially for my own gain. So for me, trying to understand that kind of behavior is really hard, NPD or no NPD. I don't think I'll ever understand it. But you're right; you can't do one thing about it, and they'll never change.
I do stay very far away from him, and I haven't seen him in 2 1/2 years. That's been a blessing!
Take good care,
db
PS TO SHIMMERINGS!!!
We will absolutely NOT be seeing them for the holidays. We're not even NEAR that point, and as far as I know, we never will be. This guy destroyed any kind of family ties that we all may have had, and purposely so. He never liked my SIL's family to begin with because he was jealous that they were pretty functional, and loved each other through thick and thin...a family tie that he probably never knew.
Oh well, boo hoo. His loss.
How I found this blog...easy I have a google alert on " Narcissistic in laws"! Alot that come thru aren"t necessarily relavant to the information and support I am seeking...but your one sure caught my eye!
I was in the middle of a crisis in my marriage..twisted in every which a way, when my mum asked me to do a search on narcissim re her sister who is a total fruitcake. As I started reading my hubby and families odd behaviours jumped out at me and the more I read the more I was convinced I had hit the nail on the head. Thanks mum!
I cut and pasted, cut and pasted and came up withmy own short list of behaviuors that were applicable to my in laws...
- cant reason well
-envious
-competitive
-comparing
-negative outlook
-sensitive to personnal criticism
-critical of others
-intolerance to disagreement
-hostile > passive
-inattentive to self image..stay in a time warp here
-hung up on the importance of THEIR work > a show of working hard
-talk from an authorative source...not their own
-attach to others
-workaholism ( I have read this can be a manic defense against depresson)
-critical if you do or you dont
-lack of autonomy
-contradict themselves
-misquote
-name calling
-blaming
-trouble grasping meaning...oral or written ( I find it has to be in context)
-ridicules
-talking to others about you...never you
-verbal abuse
-closed system of logic > no input
-low self esteem
-self deception
-hot\ cold reactions
-resentful
-boundaries not clear
-little or no sense of humour
There are some more things I could add...oh so many more and I can give examples to each one these behaviours!and more.......!!!!!
It has been so hard to deal with over the years...to the stage I had a break down earlier on this year. My saving grace has been discovering it's not me. I wanted to shout it from the rooftops. HOW FREEING!!
Any of this sound familiar!!! I do have more if you are interested!
Katy
Dear Katy,
Oh, my goodness, yes it sounds familiar! Actually, my ex-husband can be quite narcissistic, and I spent most of my marriage thinking it was all "me". Now, it takes two to tango, but when you've done everything you can to please someone--from only wearing the clothes he likes to cleaning incessantly (and getting ridiculed on an "off" day when a toy was on the floor or there were no carpet lines in the rug when he came home), to never letting your hair get longer than your shoulders, even though that's the way you like it--you really start to feel that you are a loser. Nothing I ever did was good enough for this man. By the end of my marriage, I had no identity--I was his wife, I had no name or opinions of my own. I honestly believe that God felt I deserved better.
Now, when I met my new in-laws (I'm remarried--and yes, it's a much better match!), I started to realize that my SIL's husband acted an awful lot like MY FIRST husband...all that arrogance, and running her ragged, and making sure she was his "trophy", doing everything perfect--but the difference between me and her was that she was one of those co-dependent narcissists. She loved the money and the lifestyle--it never seemed to bother her that it was illegal; she also had something to say about everyone, was judgemental, etc...my husband swears his sister was never like that growing up, that her husband turned her into that. I mean, between the two of them, the pride and arrogance was overwhelming sometimes.
My BIL was empty, though; at least my SIL could show signs of being human. This man, if he ever showed any kind of a human side, it was either a lie, or he only did it in front of my SIL alone. I've never seen anyone lie like my BIL before in my life. Just pathological lying, all about CYA constantly...he cheated my FIL, he constantly badmouthed my MIL...these were people that were very kind to him and allowed him to remain in the family even after he did terrible things to my SIL (which she always downplayed, and still does to this day...like everyone else is crazy for making a big deal out of the fact that he raised his hands to her, or that he was a criminal, etc.)...I'll tell you, the sickest person here is my SIL. Some great big stuff just went down recently, and she's STILL there sticking up for him. It is truly pathetic, it really is. Every time I hear something about the situation, I just can't help saying, "WHAT'S WRONG WITH HER?!?" I just don't get it!
Thanks again for stopping by. You should create a "narcissistic blog", lol...I'm sure you'd have plenty to write about...hey, I could be a contributor, LOL!!!
Take good care,
db
Hope you are doing okay, Dust Bunny --
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